sends downvote squads

lmao

Imagine being this paranoid.

Sorry about the formatting. Suppose we organize our thoughts differently - I find it much easier to address one point at a time.

So, now the admins are in the fight. They have limited choices for those in their camp. They either fight for a core right: to be recognized and respected, or they refuse to fight for that right and abandon those for whom the language is most hurtful for.

But pronouns and neopronouns and even personalized neopronouns weren’t what caused this whole fiasco. The first ban (to me, the minor one) was over me explicitly saying that I respected neopronouns, including personalized ones, but did not think that a human being could be a dragon.

The bans of the trans individual were over first asking a question about neopronouns, and then, after that, for saying that a human being could not be a possum.

This is, again, a dangerous tactic. It is one that risks internal rebellion and increased external attacks. But, it is an effective tactic. If done right, not only will those individuals no longer be let in, but others will have to consider whether or not they want in as well. They become aware, via posts like this one, that it is a war, and that they will fight. And, that they don’t care where you are, if you fuck with their people even indirectly, you aren’t welcome.

That’s a powerful thing. Looking at it from the outside, it’s brilliant, if they intended even part of that. I don’t know their intent, it could be pure spite, but it looks looks like someone not fucking around.

I don’t think that’s correct. I think it’s much more of an internal tool than you’re seeing. Few people are going to be sitting here, casual Blahaj users, and suddenly be cowed by the prospect of a ban. Much more likely is that Blahaj users become much more reticent about discussing matters outside of Blahaj, in case they run afoul of the Groupthink and catch a ban from their primary place of participation.

Managing all of that? Making that fight, nobody is going to get it right every time. But it’s a fight worth having. If it turns and rots into a form of fascism, then blahaj falls, and that will be a bad thing. But I believe that, so far, it’s being done for the right reasons, and in scale with the incidence of incursions.

See, I have two problems with this here:

1. That, as you note, I don’t believe that it is proportionate or done for the right reasons.

2. But also that rot does not cause communities to fall. Man, I spent years of my youth on some toxic fucking online communities, and the only thing binding those communities together was our place of conversation. That’s a weak tie, and still, abuse and bad culture did not even collapse it; in many cases it didn’t even stop growth.

The ties of a community that claim to stand for trans rights, when many trans folk look to the internet for their primary communities where they can be themselves, and one in which behavior even outside of that community can lead to a total removal from that community? That’s not going to collapse because of some power tripping or bad internal culture. That’s going to persist as long as it is allowed to. If you’re judging whether Blahaj has turned the wrong corner over whether it’s still a cohesive community, you’ll be there for the whole ride, possibly down to the heat death of the universe.

If Ada or another admin asked my opinion, I’d tell them to reverse the ban and try engaging with you instead. And tell them they were being assholes if they don’t at least consider it

Man, legit, the ban doesn’t affect me. I haven’t posted on Blahaj in months. Even before I got pissed on the subject, when I was understanding (before moderator action was taken for the crime of saying I was leaving), my intention was to wish them the best and sail off. At the end of the day, the ban was an irritant at most, just something to vent about. I don’t care if it’s reversed.

Far more aggravating is the context of it all. Hunting comments in other instances to ban people over, playing dogpile games against people who disagree. And I don’t think that Ada or the rest of the admins really give a shit about it happening. Considering that they’re involved in the hunt for banning folk, I’m much more inclined to see an unstated permissiveness towards the behavior. I’m also fucking pissed right now over the fact that they harassed a trans user out of the Fediverse entirely, on another instance, so you could say that I’m not inclined to be charitable at the moment.

I appreciate that you don’t think I’m transphobic considering what’s been thrown around recently.

Unfortunately, lemmy is not only difficult to use that way, but there’s still a need to interact with outsiders because there’s a war on. They need allies to have access, the users to be able to interact with other instances, and for trans people on other instances to be able to interact there.

So they choose to alienate allies and drive around trans people on other instances from the Fediverse entirely for wrongthink?

That seems counterproductive.

They’re going to fuck up because there’s no way to make all of that work without admin oversight being high. There’s always going to be human error, biases, and outright moments of emotional decisions. It happens everywhere.

Okay, so when is it no longer acceptable? Is it decided that they just get a total pass for all behavior because it’s a trans-friendly space, so long as you’re trans in a way that agrees with the mob mentality? If you aren’t, of course, then you’re a transphobe and a fascist.

Those of us that aren’t blahaj users can STFU and mind our own when it comes right down to it, because it isn’t our space.

It seems that Blahaj doesn’t regard its space as having any borders.

Our trans compatriots fucking deserve a space where they can work this kind of thing out, even if that means a lot of mistakes along the way.

Apparently, not all trans compatriots are deserving.

And the admins of blahaj are making mistakes. So are some of the users. The questions are, what are those mistakes, which users, and how can there be an objective decision as to what’s the best path?

So, what, don’t criticize Blahaj, don’t point out anything negative they do, just let them do what they want because there’s no ‘objectively’ correct answer? That wouldn’t fly for any other community or admin team. Why here?

I sure don’t have a right to decide those things for blahaj, so my opinions are essentially farting in the wind. All I can do is support the trans community as a whole, and hope that blahaj finds a balance that allows the users and admins to have a space that is as free of interference and hate as is possible in this fucked up world.

And when the community on Blahaj harasses trans users off the Fediverse entirely for wrongthink? Is supporting Blahaj then supporting the trans community?

Now, while preemptive bans are a damn difficult tool to use well, they are a valid tool. I personally wouldn’t have used them in every case that’s shown up on the various C/s about mod/admin actions, but I also don’t have access to everything an admin would. There may be reasons I can’t see. But I would have used it in a few of those cases. I prefer preemptives to be a scalpel rather than a scythe, but sometimes you have to cut.

I think you’re going way out of your way to justify what you realize are, visibly, bad decisions.

Wars never happen without harm to real people, and a lot of the war against trans people is a war waged with words and ideas. So neutering the words of war being able to besiege the instance seems like a worthy strategy to me.

By waging a war of words against trans folk who don’t believe ‘correctly’ in other instances entirely?

Honestly I wish you would just drop it and move on with your life. I wouldn’t want to be a part of a community that didn’t want me, and you are clearly unwanted.

I’m literally not part of the community. I haven’t posted there in forever. I found the fact that they dogpiled and bullied a trans user for wrongthink on another instance entirely, calling them a transphobe and a fascist, revolting.

The main admin and several users expressed support for that very canard.