Global leap to 4G and 5G would cut off phone access for millions of vulnerable people.
- Telecom companies aim to profit from the 2G-to-5G transition as governments worldwide face pressure to free up mobile spectrum.
- Vietnam is the latest country to shut down 2G by offering free 4G phones to the poor.
- India and South Africa have expressed concern that the strategy would cut off phone access for millions of vulnerable people.
Well they may say 4G phones are expensive but in my country older 2G phones are absurdly expensive claiming they are “collectors item” whilest used Google Nexus 5Xes sell off at 10$…
Well I got the Covid vaccine. I’m screwed I am 5g already.
Well 2g is good because it reaches be further doesn’t it? Say if you’re in the wilderness, there’s a slim chance 2G might work
the 5g standard includes many frequencies, including long range 2g-like ~400Mhz ones
I’m a ham radio operator; it just feels weird hearing someone call 400 MHz “long range.” Above, say, 60 MHz I wouldn’t count on anything beyond line-of-sight anyway, though I suppose the lower in the UHF band you are the more likely you are to punch through leaves and such.
hahah everything is relative I guess.
I did once talk to Ukraine from some woods in North Carolina on 20 meters (~14 MHz) So when you say “long range radio” to me I think in hemispheres.
I live outside of a big city in the UK. Many times I can ONLY get 2G.
Same here. Many providers turned off 3G so I either see 4G or 2G. 2G is so slow it may as well not exist.
I’m in a recovery group and someone shared how dangerous 5G was and that they have to move again because there is too much 5G in their area…. I’m still dumbfounded.
I am still baffled by these idiots after I learned how 5g works. It isn’t just frequencies increases (I could see why someone might be sceptical about this one). The main difference is simply using another protocol which allows to send more bits with a single signal.
If there is any thought to it, it usually goes something like “Radio is/was fine because it’s kilo/megahertz, Wifi/5G is gigahertz waves of electromagnetic radiation.(?!?!)”
Could always point to the Terahertz electromagnetic radiation source plugged into their nearest lightbulb socket and ask how that doesn’t hurt them.
Recovery from brain injury?
/sorry
So is the difference between 2g, 3g, 4g and 5g that they use different channels/frequencies, different communication protocols, or both?
Both of those, and also different signal modulation.
There’s also changing from circuit to packet switching, which also drastically changes how the handover process works.
tl;Dr - handover in 5G is buggy and barely works. The whole thing of switching from one service area to another in the middle of a call is held together by hopes and dreams.
A big blocker that the article surprisingly doesn’t talk about is tons of IoT stuff that uses 2G and 3G. Stuff like alarm systems, emergency phones, street light control, cars etc. Here in Sweden there was recently a report that thousands of elevators have emergency phones using 2G and 3G, and if the network is shut down you would no longer be allowed to use those elevators. And since 2018 all new cars in the EU has to have eCall, which alerts emergency services on a crash. Many of these use 2G and 3G, and if it stops working the car won’t pass inspection so you’ll no longer be allowed to drive it.
I’m in Sweden too. I was considering buying a used car made in 2023. It uses 2G/3G. It has some connected services I actually wanted to use. And well, the ecall obviously. It’s really not an old car yet, but it becomes obsolete already.
On the manufacturer’s website they say that new car models need to have 4G/5G only by 2026. And starting 2027 all cars sold must have it. 2027 is also when they expect 2G to be fully shut down in the country. This timeline makes no sense for devices with a long life span.
In the website they also say you wouldn’t fail inspection though. But honestly I don’t care too much about that, since I actually care about ecall and some other connected services.
I hope my 2023 car only have it so I can get rid of the spyware in my car. In this case obsolescence feels fine
I have a feeling we’re going to regret a lot of the “From 201x all new cars have to have ibuttfuck.” It’s like paying to be assimilated by the goddamn Borg.
You will be surprised how many old people rely on health monitoring devices that use 2G to send basic data.
Not just old people. I had a heart monitor a couple years ago that’s only made for 2G.
Alright maybe I’m getting old but that’s not the point.
When I was visiting the Caribbean they also had a lot of 2G infrastructure still operating.
It sounds like there’s a really big market opportunity for somebody to make a portable transceiver that converts 2G and 3G signals into 5G…
Really really difficult to do that at scale. You don’t want random companies making cell signal transceivers.
You’d be better off just replacing the 2g transceivers entirely.
While I agree with you in principle, that’s a hard sell to somebody with an embedded 2G medical device.
You don’t want random companies making cell signal transceivers.
Setting “companies” aside, I don’t see why it couldn’t be some sort of DIY project. Like, a small computer with a both a 2G and 5G modem, a set of antennas for each, and some middleware…
In fact, there are some phones that support both networks… So why couldn’t a spare phone be used? They technically already have all the hardware to make it work.
Because it’s the cellphone equivalent of creating a pirate radio station, to put it in terms better understood. In all developed nations that is outright not allowed.
You’re saying to create a 2g cell tower which then retransmits on 5g. That 2g portion needs to emit as if it were a real cell tower, it’s not just a phone-to-phone connection.
What I’m saying is those medical device companies just need to upgrade hardware. Not the user.
I’m not sure there would be an advantage. The signals are very different. That might be approximately equal to building a new one.
…you don’t see the advantage in avoiding open heart surgery to replace an embedded medical device?
I think the thing you’d have to replace is outside the body. Something like this:
I’m not sure an implanted cellular transmitter would even work, given how human tissue absorbs that spectrum.
Ooohhh! You know what, I learned something new today! Thank you so much for taking the time to explain it in a way that made sense to me.
We switched off 3G this year in the UK and my brothers phone stopped being able to make calls. He was using a 6 year old high-end Android phone, but it was from just before the cutoff where you could turn on VoLTE (calls over 4G).
Thankfully, I had a spare phone from the next year after that to hand him, and that one could work with some hidden menu (the type you type into your dialer) hacking.
Why couldn’t you turn off 3G on that old phone via that same hidden menu? Or how come the phone didn’t even recognize that it can fall back to 2G…
Due to marketing b*******, most things labeled as 3G are actually 2G.So networks don’t support both two and three g. Then things that are actually 3G like hspda and L.T.E are marketed as four g , so it’s just very confusing between all of it. They want to shut down the 2G.Networks that are edge and gsm.And they want to shut down the one g network that’s cdma. Depending on your service that could be marketed as 123 or even four g.
what benefits does 5g offer over 2g?
5g is a lot more capable and flexible compared to older generations. The main one is a massive increase in capacity, for the same frequency allocations. Compounding with this is that it can be directional. This allows several phones to use the exact same channel simultaneously, so long as they are positioned at different angles to the tower.
5g also uses more frequency bands, allowing even more data to be moved around. Unfortunately, 2g has most of the lower frequencies, higher frequencies carry more data, but have less penetration into buildings.
Finally, 5g allows for priority and context awareness. E.g. the police can have their phones prioritised, or VoIP calls given priority over video streaming. It can also trade bandwidth for range. This allows a tower to either reach further to cover a larger area, or focus down, to provide more bandwidth locally.
In theory 5g could have a similar range to 2g. However, that rarely happens. It requires it using the lower frequencies, that 2g currently uses, and well as dropping its data rate to improve range. Most of the time it’s optimised for shorter range, and more towers using higher frequencies. This gives impression of a far smaller range. But give a huge increase is available bandwidth.
Thanks for the real answer! If it can be directional, presumably this would be good for positioning as well?
To an extent. You are still talking 20-40 degree windows, but triangulation is definitely possible. I’m not sure if it’s used like that however.
