To be clear, the current tariff execution is reckless and poorly planned. But I hear a lot of total tariff opposition from the same people who demand we continue to escalate with China over control of Taiwan, up to a potential hot war.
So what’s the plan? Western economies were brought to their knees during just a momentary interruption in shipping during the pandemic. How do you wage a war with a country that does all of your manufacturing? China could defeat most western countries without firing a single shot, just by cutting off their access to Chinese exports.
If you don’t support tariffs to bring back manufacturing jobs domestically, how do you think we could make it through a war with our manufacturing partners? I can’t reconcile the two ideas, and I don’t understand how some of y’all are.
We’ve been trying the incentive method for decades now. It hasn’t worked.
Tariffs aren’t the way either.
The problem with incentives isn’t that they “can’t” work, it’s that they need to be at a level that makes using foreign manufacturing unattractive.
The problem is, they will leave the moment you cut off the incentive. So it becomes a permanent subsidy.
I don’t disagree with that, but it assumes the incentives are intended to expire. If the aim is to bring manufacturing back to the U.S., then one has to ensure manufacturing in the U.S. is profitable.
Tariffs do nothing for that.
That’s not correct. Almost every single manufacturing industry that was outsourced was plenty profitable here in the states. They were outsourced because it was more profitable to do it overseas. It’s a race to the bottom.
I agree tariffs aren’t the right move. Personally, I would support nationalization and import bans on certain industries.
I think you missed where we’re in agreement about it being more profitable outside of the country. I was only suggesting that a better way to combat that would be incentives that are designed to maintain a status where the process of manufacturing remains profitable within the U.S.
I didn’t miss anything. I just don’t think any domestic industry required for economic & national security should hinge on something as precarious as incentivizing. If they’re that critical, it needs to be nationalized, with strict import bans. Fuck the profitability or buttering up capitalists in hopes they’ll do the right thing for us.
What are the industries you’re concerned about? I’m unclear on how a country would actually accomplish your goals without becoming imperialist. No country has every resource it needs in the abundance it needs.
If it’s an industry the nation needs to survive, economically or otherwise, that’s an industry that needs to be nationalized.
And this is the opposite of imperialism. Imperialism is what we have now.
I see. So you are ready to try the “increase all costs” route now…
Personally I’m ready to try communism, nationalization, and a planned economy.