It wasn’t “Do not, under any circumstances, speak to a woman”
Actually, as explained to me by a woman, it was exactly that.
This was well after I had married, somewhere in my fifth decade, so I was off that particular playing field for quite some time by that point. But on a lark I had asked a feminist what this “leave women alone” refrain meant. And some of it made perfect sense: don’t hit up cashiers or anyone doing their jobs, they’re just being nice and friendly because they are being paid to be polite.
But it also meant don’t approach women when they’re shopping for groceries, as they’re probably tired from work and just want to go home. Don’t approach women on public transportation, as they’re just trying to get home and don’t want to be accosted in a cramped public venue. Don’t approach women when they’re out with friends, because they are with friends and don’t want to be cleaved off like how a predator isolates a member of a herd.
This went on and on, to some pretty ridiculous lengths. Whereupon I asked, “how is any man supposed to do an unsolicited approach to chat up a woman?”, to which she said - and no, not kidding at all - “They shouldn’t. Any man who we’re interested in will understand when we’re interested in them.”
Like… telepathy.
Literal f**king
telepathy.
Sure as shit, this is what a woman said to me.
Most men get absolutely zero life experience in decoding super-subtle hints, and now they’re supposed to miraculously become an expert in navigating a potentially life-destroying minefield, where the only two outcomes is magically getting it right, or risking a non-trivial probability of incarceration and a criminal record when they (invariably) get it wrong?
No wonder so many men are saying “thanks, but no thanks.” That the juice - the outcome - is just no longer worth the squeeze - all the effort and risk that is shouldered. I don’t blame them in the least. They’re the smart ones.
And those who are slightly less smart are at least asking the $10,000 question: why aren’t women making the first approach? I mean, isn’t that what this whole “equality of the sexes” shtick was all about? Why don’t women put their money where their mouths are, and ask MEN out, for a change? Because I can guarantee that while any normal woman will experience a certain level of rejection, it will still be several orders of magnitude less than what a similarly-normal man experiences.
they’re supposed to miraculously become an expert in navigating a potentially life-destroying minefield, where the only two outcomes is magically getting it right, or risking a non-trivial probability of incarceration and a criminal record when they (invariably) get it wrong?
This is some nonsense. The worst the man will get (barring some VERY unacceptable behavior on his part) is yelled at by an angry (and probably shitty, if all the man did was politely approach at even a remotely reasonable time) woman. Which, turns out, is something women deal with from shitty men fairly regularly. It turns out, when you are interacting with strangers out in public, there is a small chance you are going to interact with an asshole. That doesn’t mean you should be a hermit, that means you met an asshole. And if everyone you meet is an asshole… you’re probably the asshole.
But nobody is going to jail or having life-shattering consequences for saying hello to a woman they don’t know.
THAT BEING SAID, if we, as men, are regularly told that approaching a woman in public is uncomfortable, unpleasant, or downright scary for women, decent men won’t want to approach women in order to avoid making them uncomfortable.
My personal experience has been to the contrary, and have struck up conversations with a number of women I didn’t know in public, and never had a particularly bad experience. Maybe I am generally non-threatening, or maybe I have better social skills than some, but if all a person who rarely interacts with women hears is that initiating any sort of contact is unpleasant to the woman they talk to, I can’t imagine they’d be inclined to strike up a conversation. And if they do make women uncomfortable (due to poor social skills from… not regularly interacting with women), it only reinforces that belief.
What’s the answer? I don’t know. But it feels like making men who care about the feelings of women uncomfortable with approaching them does nothing but leave the ones who don’t care. I think the message needs to change.
I have a feeling this is a very american thing. Random encounters with the other sex were the norm in Germany (at least before tinder and the likes, no idea how it’s nowadays). Being confident got you a long way. Not always, mind you. But often enough. Most women actually like being spoken to, as long as it’s a friendly encounter. I believe it might be different in America because everyone there is trying to one up each other (often resulting in loud and annoying behavior). I wouldn’t want to be chatted up by the cliche american guy either.
No, I mean the quack bullshit about creating energy from nothing. And not just some theoretical framework, as in technically, this could yield a net positive somehow, no. My guy was convinced he could build it himself from tinfoil and strings, if “the establishment” didn’t oppress him (meaning his coworkers and bosses told him it’s stupid).
Fucking wild. Imagine it being that easy, and everybody in the world is either too dumb to come to the same conclusion or in the pocket of Big Oil. Not even, like, a North Korean mad scientist trying to one-up the capitalist pigs? Yeah, sure.
I had a physics professor tell me about free energy. Having a degree is not 100% effective in curing stupid.
There are physicists that don’t believe in anthropogenic climate change, and that is to be expected because that subject isn’t in their wheelhouse; it isn’t their bread-and-butter, and that isn’t their day job that they work on for 2,000+hrs a year for decades on end. So they are lacking a lot of the data that would allow them to make correct decisions regarding factuality.
But when most of an academic field is saying the exact same thing about a core subject that is at the foundation of their discipline, imma not gonna be arrogant enough to presume that they’re wrong. I’m going to take them exactly at their word.
Out of curiosity, have some sources for “most of the academic field”? It sounds like some sociology/psychology thing.
Besides, my guy had a PhD in physics. Either it was an elaborate prank, or a complete nutcase. And I’ve met more than one of that kind, sadly. Degrees are not a guarantee for intelligence or sanity, just a proof that at some point they wrote a thesis.
Tell me you know nothing about that word without saying you are ignorant AF about that word, and are only throwing it around as a weapon in an attempt to publicly shame me into being quiet.
So: nice ad hominem. You clearly have absolutely nothing of substance in which to counter the message, so instead you attack the speaker.
Actually, as explained to me by a woman, it was exactly that.
This was well after I had married, somewhere in my fifth decade, so I was off that particular playing field for quite some time by that point. But on a lark I had asked a feminist what this “leave women alone” refrain meant. And some of it made perfect sense: don’t hit up cashiers or anyone doing their jobs, they’re just being nice and friendly because they are being paid to be polite.
But it also meant don’t approach women when they’re shopping for groceries, as they’re probably tired from work and just want to go home. Don’t approach women on public transportation, as they’re just trying to get home and don’t want to be accosted in a cramped public venue. Don’t approach women when they’re out with friends, because they are with friends and don’t want to be cleaved off like how a predator isolates a member of a herd.
This went on and on, to some pretty ridiculous lengths. Whereupon I asked, “how is any man supposed to do an unsolicited approach to chat up a woman?”, to which she said - and no, not kidding at all - “They shouldn’t. Any man who we’re interested in will understand when we’re interested in them.”
Like… telepathy.
Literal
f**king
telepathy.
Sure as shit, this is what a woman said to me.
Most men get absolutely zero life experience in decoding super-subtle hints, and now they’re supposed to miraculously become an expert in navigating a potentially life-destroying minefield, where the only two outcomes is magically getting it right, or risking a non-trivial probability of incarceration and a criminal record when they (invariably) get it wrong?
No wonder so many men are saying “thanks, but no thanks.” That the juice - the outcome - is just no longer worth the squeeze - all the effort and risk that is shouldered. I don’t blame them in the least. They’re the smart ones.
And those who are slightly less smart are at least asking the $10,000 question: why aren’t women making the first approach? I mean, isn’t that what this whole “equality of the sexes” shtick was all about? Why don’t women put their money where their mouths are, and ask MEN out, for a change? Because I can guarantee that while any normal woman will experience a certain level of rejection, it will still be several orders of magnitude less than what a similarly-normal man experiences.
I was with you (to a degree)until:
This is some nonsense. The worst the man will get (barring some VERY unacceptable behavior on his part) is yelled at by an angry (and probably shitty, if all the man did was politely approach at even a remotely reasonable time) woman. Which, turns out, is something women deal with from shitty men fairly regularly. It turns out, when you are interacting with strangers out in public, there is a small chance you are going to interact with an asshole. That doesn’t mean you should be a hermit, that means you met an asshole. And if everyone you meet is an asshole… you’re probably the asshole.
But nobody is going to jail or having life-shattering consequences for saying hello to a woman they don’t know.
THAT BEING SAID, if we, as men, are regularly told that approaching a woman in public is uncomfortable, unpleasant, or downright scary for women, decent men won’t want to approach women in order to avoid making them uncomfortable.
My personal experience has been to the contrary, and have struck up conversations with a number of women I didn’t know in public, and never had a particularly bad experience. Maybe I am generally non-threatening, or maybe I have better social skills than some, but if all a person who rarely interacts with women hears is that initiating any sort of contact is unpleasant to the woman they talk to, I can’t imagine they’d be inclined to strike up a conversation. And if they do make women uncomfortable (due to poor social skills from… not regularly interacting with women), it only reinforces that belief.
What’s the answer? I don’t know. But it feels like making men who care about the feelings of women uncomfortable with approaching them does nothing but leave the ones who don’t care. I think the message needs to change.
I have a feeling this is a very american thing. Random encounters with the other sex were the norm in Germany (at least before tinder and the likes, no idea how it’s nowadays). Being confident got you a long way. Not always, mind you. But often enough. Most women actually like being spoken to, as long as it’s a friendly encounter. I believe it might be different in America because everyone there is trying to one up each other (often resulting in loud and annoying behavior). I wouldn’t want to be chatted up by the cliche american guy either.
Well I’m not American and it felt pretty spot on, so idk.
Still does here in America. But as this thread proves, lots of people on Lemmy lack it.
I’ve never been handsome, and I’ve never had a problem dating. Even when i was in high school and was awkward as fuck.
I grew up on a small town, and everyone talked to everyone. So i never had an issue.
Lemmy seems to have more social outcasts than even Reddit.
I would honestly say your friend misunderstood the message as well if that was her takeaway.
Unlikely - she was and still is a professor teaching women’s studies at the local university. Published, too. She’s hardly a nobody.
I had a physics professor tell me about free energy. Having a degree is not 100% effective in curing stupid.
Free energy is literally a thing in thermodynamics though?
No, I mean the quack bullshit about creating energy from nothing. And not just some theoretical framework, as in technically, this could yield a net positive somehow, no. My guy was convinced he could build it himself from tinfoil and strings, if “the establishment” didn’t oppress him (meaning his coworkers and bosses told him it’s stupid).
Fucking wild. Imagine it being that easy, and everybody in the world is either too dumb to come to the same conclusion or in the pocket of Big Oil. Not even, like, a North Korean mad scientist trying to one-up the capitalist pigs? Yeah, sure.
There are physicists that don’t believe in anthropogenic climate change, and that is to be expected because that subject isn’t in their wheelhouse; it isn’t their bread-and-butter, and that isn’t their day job that they work on for 2,000+hrs a year for decades on end. So they are lacking a lot of the data that would allow them to make correct decisions regarding factuality.
But when most of an academic field is saying the exact same thing about a core subject that is at the foundation of their discipline, imma not gonna be arrogant enough to presume that they’re wrong. I’m going to take them exactly at their word.
Out of curiosity, have some sources for “most of the academic field”? It sounds like some sociology/psychology thing.
Besides, my guy had a PhD in physics. Either it was an elaborate prank, or a complete nutcase. And I’ve met more than one of that kind, sadly. Degrees are not a guarantee for intelligence or sanity, just a proof that at some point they wrote a thesis.
That’s actually even worse 😬
sure thing, incel
Tell me you know nothing about that word without saying you are ignorant AF about that word, and are only throwing it around as a weapon in an attempt to publicly shame me into being quiet.
So: nice ad hominem. You clearly have absolutely nothing of substance in which to counter the message, so instead you attack the speaker.
Truly an effective way of winning arguments! /s
you? did i tag you or mention you by name? or are you just that insecure?
also, congratulations for highlighting the logical fallacy! i’m sure that’ll get you laid, poindexter!